Curse

tealspikes · Dec 18, 2009, 02:00 PM // 14:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4thVariety

I often ask people what the definition of skill is supposed to be and what sort of button press constitutes skill? We all should know that once you are settling in to farm anything by having a combination of skills outsmarting all enemy offense and defense, the rest is always a regular series of buttons being punched in the same order.

However, I never get an answer laying down the law of this "skillful play". If you replay dungeons over and over, then you will always have the same button presses and of course any regular human can learn that. That does not lessen it one bit. The only alternative would be random button presses in reaction to what the game says. Would you rather farm like this?

Guild Wars is not really about individual skill. If you really want to put your mad gaming skillz to the test you need to find another game.
GW was supposed to be about teamwork between four to eight players, which is something conventional farming lacks.

Skyy High · Dec 18, 2009, 02:05 PM // 14:05

Hilarious...weren't people saying in the last QQ thread about the missing skill balance that "all we want is some information and we'll be happy"? Yeah, ooooookay, bunch of babies...

akio pwns · Dec 18, 2009, 02:30 PM // 14:30

[QUOTE The next skill balance update will not be released this month QUOTE]

hmm so first the october update was pushed to november, then november pushed to december wintersday update, and now pushed to an undisclosed date in 2010.

Just one demand.. id better see more then hammer mastery, and tatics along with a 600/smite + SF nerf. Much more for this wait.

Painbringer · Dec 18, 2009, 02:52 PM // 14:52

Can't wait

Stir the pot up a bit then let us evolve

Tom Swift · Dec 18, 2009, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

Guild Wars is not really about individual skill. If you really want to put your mad gaming skillz to the test you need to find another game.
GW was supposed to be about teamwork between four to eight players, which is something conventional farming lacks.

That was its original intention

But with fewer players spread over larger areas it is simply no longer a viable foundation for the game. Players take dungeon runs and do UW speed clears as groups because the decreased time and effort make it worth while. Beyond that, no one enjoys a game that mostly consists in standing around for long periods of time waiting for other people to join (with the exception of most of Shing Jea 1 and pre searing Ascalon 1 - but they aren't interested in playing anyway).

If they prevent true solo play, that's fine. But whatever changes they make, they do need to make sure the whole game (including elite areas) can be done H/H because that is, honestly, the only direction this game can go at this point.

Sorry, the days of people teaming up in PvE are over and done with. The player base and attitude is no longer there. People will either need to be able to play the game by themselves or they will just start leaving for other entertainment that does not demand a high level of patience with others.

chessyang · Dec 18, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regina Buenaobra

Pressing Issues

Shadow Form – ......., including reworking the skill from a fundamental level.
Possible Changes to 600 Smite –

1) for SF will you keep it some what "shadow-ish" like stealth-like?
2) it was fun running 600 a with a hero but never like it. to much upkeep but see neat it would be with a real person.

i welcome the new skill updates!

Leigh The Legendary · Dec 18, 2009, 04:10 PM // 16:10

Who cares? Anet has been nerfing farming builds since the beginning. Adapt to challenge and change or quit.

also: DEAD GAME......

DRGN · Dec 18, 2009, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Well, first....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Developer Update – September 2009 PvE and PvP Skill Balances

This is our last skill balance update before moving officially to a bimonthly schedule.

Is it really a bi-monthly schedule if it goes three months before we get told it'll be another, fourth month at the earliest?

Second, why are the devs picking NOW to whack 600/smite? It's been around since Factions, and they wait till the game is dying to nerf it? How does that make sense?

There really needs to be a buff to make some new kinds of farming builds in the update. I don't know if the developers realize how few options they've left us with outside of Perma and 600/smite, unless they intend to make everyone make money off of power trading and cape leechers from bought guilds.

EDIT: I had to address this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

Guild Wars is not really about individual skill. If you really want to put your mad gaming skillz to the test you need to find another game.
GW was supposed to be about teamwork between four to eight players, which is something conventional farming lacks.

You're kidding, right? Aside from the fact that individual skill IS a big part of the game, do you think there's not popular team farms that don't use a perma or 600?

Micro215 · Dec 18, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

I think people need to realize that none of the holidays are automated and that they need to code, test, dubug for every one. To expect them to come out with a flawless wintersday and a skill update is a little too much to do at once. personally, I'd rather have them take the extra time and get it right then to rush it and have it come out FUBAR

The Mad Addict · Dec 18, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Leave Ebon Dust Aura alone Dervish is my favorite class to play in RA and they are gonna take away their best support skill??

imnotyourmother · Dec 18, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Really Tact is war is Useless? Your just figuring that out now? What war has been around for almost 5 YEARS!!!

Ok here is a WAR Big and strong carrying a Hammer and using Tack?? How ruddy stupid is that?

I use my war as a RANGER most of the time. I have higher armor than ranger and with a bonus bow and Frenzy/War Endurance I can smash and grab cause war skills SUCK.

Ok I vented.

A change in Hammer and Tack would be nice to put the war's back to where they belong. Killers not "tanks" to suck up the damage with the signet and the elite and the like. My war can get up to 1200 health and deal 6 damage.. what good is that? I play it in AB sometimes and just stand there while the other team smashes me for about 20 seconds and then just gives up.

BlackSephir · Dec 18, 2009, 05:19 PM // 17:19

SF- yes yes plz nerf it, dirty farmers
600 smite- no no plz don't nerf it, it takes skill and is slow than sf

(

Guru users- full of dignity as always.

Mustache Mayhem · Dec 18, 2009, 05:20 PM // 17:20

hey kain if your gonna nerf spirit bond.. lets go all the way and get SY! thrown in there too

Targren · Dec 18, 2009, 05:34 PM // 17:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by tealspikes

Guild Wars is not really about individual skill. If you really want to put your mad gaming skillz to the test you need to find another game.
GW was supposed to be about teamwork between four to eight players, which is something conventional farming lacks.

Heroes/Henchmen say you're wrong. AI has been available as an alternative to grouping since the first boob-shaking naked Elementalist beat Vatlaaw Doomtooth and watched the searing cutscene, and AI doesn't do "teamwork."

GW is a game, and it was "supposed to be about" having FUN and making Anet MONEY. Claiming anything else is just navel-gazing and wankery.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micro215

I think people need to realize that none of the holidays are automated and that they need to code, test, dubug for every one. To expect them to come out with a flawless wintersday and a skill update is a little too much to do at once. personally, I'd rather have them take the extra time and get it right then to rush it and have it come out FUBAR

Actually, that was true before the Halloween update. They said they DID automate it (personally can't believe it took them 4+ years to realize that was a good idea). No, it's pretty clear that the skill update took a back seat to the snowball skills updates and the costume trash.

Skyy High · Dec 18, 2009, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Swift

Sorry, the days of people teaming up in PvE are over and done with. The player base and attitude is no longer there. People will either need to be able to play the game by themselves or they will just start leaving for other entertainment that does not demand a high level of patience with others.

I got a 5 man PUG of random players for NM Eternal Grove about an hour ago, took 5 minutes from the time I first said LFG to the time we entered. Beat it too, masters, no problem.

Grouping is slow, and it can be somewhat risky for certain things, but it's really not as dead (and random players aren't as horrible) as it's made out to be on the forums....

@Targen: AI certainly does do teamwork, or do you think that people create builds like Discordway and Saabway from random templates? The point is that GW is a game that revolves about 8 skillbars, human or AI, synergizing to form a team build. You can layer other, more complex layers of teamwork on top of that, but they're not necessary, at least in PvE, most of the time.

mrvrod · Dec 18, 2009, 05:40 PM // 17:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

I got a 5 man PUG of random players for NM Eternal Grove about an hour ago, took 5 minutes from the time I first said LFG to the time we entered. Beat it too, masters, no problem.

Grouping is slow, and it can be somewhat risky for certain things, but it's really not as dead (and random players aren't as horrible) as it's made out to be on the forums....

@Targen: AI certainly does do teamwork, or do you think that people create builds like Discordway and Saabway from random templates? The point is that GW is a game that revolves about 8 skillbars, human or AI, synergizing to form a team build. You can layer other, more complex layers of teamwork on top of that, but they're not necessary, at least in PvE, most of the time.

So that proves the nerf "insert build here" crowd is lying when it says these builds are killing PuGs.

Pleikki · Dec 18, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Second, why are the devs picking NOW to whack 600/smite? It's been around since Factions, and they wait till the game is dying to nerf it? How does that make sense?

I guess because just now ppl started Abusing it rly, Dungeon running, mqsc, dtsc..

I Dont complain bout the nerf. im happy!

Chthon · Dec 18, 2009, 05:45 PM // 17:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiggles

You also do not think we (the TK) know [that both Protective Spirit and Spirit Bond are essential staple skills in most non-farming PvE and PvP contexts]?

1. Even if the Test Krewe knows that, a-net still needs reminded. Their past actions demonstrate such an overeagerness to wield the nerfbat that, given the chance, they probably would nerf oxygen without thinking through the consequences. (Though I must admit that skill balances under Linsey are dramatically better than under Izzy.)

2. Test Krewe is for me largely an unknown quantity. It hasn't produced anything for me to evaluate yet. I don't know most of the members. Most of those whom I'm aware of and have seen enough posts to form an opinion about don't impress me. Rajha is the only Test Krewe member I know of whose general intelligence impresses me quite a bit, but his conception of balance is not one I agree with. For all I know, Test Krewe is filled with people like this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cantos

I dont think either of these [PS & SB] are used in serious PvP any more.

Or this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

1.8 * 3 = 6

Or this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axeman002

then do what the rest do after a nerf....learn new skills...proty spirit and Spirit bond 100% need a nerf

This poster's ignorance amazes me. I suspect I'm wasting my time, but let me try to educate you:

First, understand that the damage-capped-at-X% mechanic is vital for high-end PvE. Many HM monsters simply hit too hard to survive any other way. If you don't get that, try fighting HM Molotov Rocktail without it for a quick-and-easy case-in-point. Second, PS is one of only 5 skills that provide the damage-capped-at-X% mechanic. Third, there is no substitute for PS because the other 4 skills aren't reliable enough for normal play. (Protective Bond can only be maintained by a human player elementalist, and is thus too limited for general play. Shelter often dies so quickly that it is unmaintainable, even with AP. Weapon of Xinrae ends after one hit, so it's unmaintainable. Defiant Was Xinrae is elite and self-target-only, so it's utter junk.)

The case for SB isn't quite as strong, but it's very similar. You have an important mechanic (damage-reduced-by-an-integer-potentially-larger-than-damage) that is provided reliably by precisely one skill. (RoF/Vengeful Weapon is the same mechanic, but not maintainable. VwK is self-target-only and elite. Xinrae's Weapon isn't maintainable.) Again, there's no substitute.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

PS/SB interaction is not problem. It can tank well limited amount of enemies, but will fail when encountering larger mobs which can produce enough damage packets to exhaust SB charges faster than player can reapply it - five enemies under hm buff is breaking point, even with 2s recahrge, not to mention that energy will be eventually issue.

It Is SOA interaction that makes it overpowered.

First, SB triggers even if SOA reduces incoming damage to zero, that means that SB is free to healup any damage that can get past SOA.

Seccond, Essence Bond/Balthazars Spirit still grant energy even when recieving zero damage. Essence bond does not grant energy when recieving zero damage usually - with exception of SOAed damage, so there is quite huge inconsinstency.

Fix theese two bugs, and 600 without soa will not be imba anymore.

---

I kind of do not minda 600 myself because i still would like to eventually use it to finish up kurzick title in sane amount of time. Kind of ironic, eh.

This is insightful. (Hope this guy's on Test Krewe...) Yes, a nerf to SoA should be fine. It's got a ready substitute for general-purpose use -- Shielding Hands. (Unlike PS and SB.) Additionally, the base mechanic (simple damage-reduced-by-an-integer) isn't vital and isn't used very much outside of farming. (So a nerf would be OK even if there wasn't a ready substitute.)

So, I revise my former statement:
Nerfing the smite component of 600/smite would be OK.
Nerfing/debugging SoA would be OK.
Altering PS or SB would probably be profoundly unwise.

Meridon · Dec 18, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Just replying to some interesting posts now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

Hilarious...weren't people saying in the last QQ thread about the missing skill balance that "all we want is some information and we'll be happy"? Yeah, ooooookay, bunch of babies...

Giving information is one thing. Giving information at the right time is something completely different. You can refer to my earlier post in this thread about my opinion on it. Looking at the date of this being posted and the information it contains, they could as might as well not have posted anything at all. With the new update not containing new skill changes, it was obvious Anet let us down again, and this was their excuse. And the information about the skill changes is not new at all, apart from the Warrior buff.

What people would like to see is Anet to give them a heads-up on stuff, not an explanation afterwards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

SF- yes yes plz nerf it, dirty farmers
600 smite- no no plz don't nerf it, it takes skill and is slow than sf

(

Guru users- full of dignity as always.

Assassins- Guaranteed to have a neutral and unprejudiced perspective in the farming debate, as always.

Killed u man · Dec 18, 2009, 05:54 PM // 17:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by akio pwns

[QUOTE The next skill balance update will not be released this month QUOTE]

hmm so first the october update was pushed to november, then november pushed to december wintersday update, and now pushed to an undisclosed date in 2010.
.

This They've once again made empty promises. I obviously look forwards to the update, but if they're bi-monthly bullshit was anywhere close to true, we should have 3 updates in january.

But wait, I predict another case of a flue-epidemic, so they'll be sick another 3 weeks, so they'll delay it till Februari. But in februari, there's only 28 days, that's 3 days (or 2) less than a normal month, and thus they don't have enough time to prepare the update.

So it'll be for march. I wait, in march, it's early spring break, so we'll have to save it for April. But then they've got this HUGE prank planned, which is: NO UPDATE THIS MONTH, APRIL'S FOOL!

So it'll be for May. Yes, I can find no reason not to have it in May. We've finally got a set date guys!